The Lord's prayer goes as follows:-
1. Our Father who art in heaven
2. Hallowed be thy name
3. Thy kingdom come
4. Thy will be done on earth ...
Once we have said Thy will be done, is there any meaning in further prayer? There are two extreme views on prayer - both of which I think misses the mark.
The first sees God in complete control and all that has to be done is His will and so prayer is an attempt to ascertain His will. It is a conversation with God where I am through discussion understanding God's plan and purposes. The second makes prayer much simpler where it is asking God for whatever you need or think you need :).
James 4:2 and 3 reads as follows, "yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts"
This brings out the following points:-
1 You do not have because you do not ask. This means that you need to ask otherwise it will not happen. It is not just a question of telling God - your will be done, but it means based on our understanding asking God for specific needs and requirements.
2. Prayer is not about asking for things you want. God does not answer prayer which is to fulfil your lusts!!
So what is prayer? I build my understanding of prayer on the following premises:-
1. II Cor 5:15 - we are no longer living for ourselves but for Jesus. The focus of our lives is the kingdom Matt 6:33.
2. My prayer is therefore always linked to the kingdom and what I need for the purposes of the kingdom - which includes peace of mind, basic needs etc.
3. Ezek 22:30 - God sought for a man, but since he was not found God's wrath came upon the nation. In other words the future of the nation was in the hands of the man who was meant to pray for the nation.
4. Hezekiah's prayer where God changes His word on his request.
5. The doctrine of freewill. We were not meant to be robots, but people with a personality, emotions and desires.
I believe that as we walk in the path laid out for us, God has given some freedom to us to create out own future. At times God over-rides events we create by His acts, but He never over-rides our will. That requires willing submission. So I need to plan for the future and decide on courses of actions using the intellectual abilities God has given me, AND I NEED TO PRAY THESE INTO EXISTENCE. In prayer, as you come to understand God's mind you may change the plans and the prayers.
In essence then, prayer is not just telling God let your will be done, or just trying to understand God's will - which is essentially the Islamic understanding of God and prayer, but an interactive exercise between you and God in creating the future in your area of responsibility.
1. Our Father who art in heaven
2. Hallowed be thy name
3. Thy kingdom come
4. Thy will be done on earth ...
Once we have said Thy will be done, is there any meaning in further prayer? There are two extreme views on prayer - both of which I think misses the mark.
The first sees God in complete control and all that has to be done is His will and so prayer is an attempt to ascertain His will. It is a conversation with God where I am through discussion understanding God's plan and purposes. The second makes prayer much simpler where it is asking God for whatever you need or think you need :).
James 4:2 and 3 reads as follows, "yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts"
This brings out the following points:-
1 You do not have because you do not ask. This means that you need to ask otherwise it will not happen. It is not just a question of telling God - your will be done, but it means based on our understanding asking God for specific needs and requirements.
2. Prayer is not about asking for things you want. God does not answer prayer which is to fulfil your lusts!!
So what is prayer? I build my understanding of prayer on the following premises:-
1. II Cor 5:15 - we are no longer living for ourselves but for Jesus. The focus of our lives is the kingdom Matt 6:33.
2. My prayer is therefore always linked to the kingdom and what I need for the purposes of the kingdom - which includes peace of mind, basic needs etc.
3. Ezek 22:30 - God sought for a man, but since he was not found God's wrath came upon the nation. In other words the future of the nation was in the hands of the man who was meant to pray for the nation.
4. Hezekiah's prayer where God changes His word on his request.
5. The doctrine of freewill. We were not meant to be robots, but people with a personality, emotions and desires.
I believe that as we walk in the path laid out for us, God has given some freedom to us to create out own future. At times God over-rides events we create by His acts, but He never over-rides our will. That requires willing submission. So I need to plan for the future and decide on courses of actions using the intellectual abilities God has given me, AND I NEED TO PRAY THESE INTO EXISTENCE. In prayer, as you come to understand God's mind you may change the plans and the prayers.
In essence then, prayer is not just telling God let your will be done, or just trying to understand God's will - which is essentially the Islamic understanding of God and prayer, but an interactive exercise between you and God in creating the future in your area of responsibility.
In your second premise, you have included "basic needs" as one of the things that one can pray for. How then does Mat 6:25-32 fit in? I know here "worry" is what has been talked about, but the context of the whole chapter is about "seeking after" - in essence the source of our petitions to God.
ReplyDeleteMoreover, I always thought that Hezekiah's is a good example of what not to ask for rather than as a model to ask against God's will and purpose!
Can you also comment on "Praying Ceaslessly"? When should one continue to hold on to a request and when should one give up (in the absence of an explicit revelation)?
What about Jesus' prayer in the garden of Gethsemane where he says "Take this cup from me, yet not what I will but what thou wilt."? Isn't that the same as stopping with "Thy will be done"?
ReplyDeleteGood comment. As you have said the emphasis in Matthew 6:25ff is worry. It also says that instead of worrying about material things we should seek God's kingdom.
ReplyDeleteBut this not mean that if I am seeking God's kingdom that I have no material needs. Obviously if I am living for the kingdom I would not worry much about material things. As Paul says we will have godliness with contentment. Nevertheless, in this fallen world there will be times our very existience will be endangered and the Bible encourages us to pray for these basic needs. The parables on prayer, the Lord's prayer, James, all encourage us to pray. Also we have examples of David's prayers in the Psalms.We also have Solomon's request to God on prayer in the Temple in II Chron 6:21-30.
My point on Hezekiah was that prayer changes things. However, while we make much of the fact that Manasseh was one of the worst kings - the fact is he died as a king who had committed his life to Yahweh. If we say that Hezekiah's prayer is wrong it makes all prayer for the sick dangerous.
I find the easy way out on "praying with ceasing" as keeping your mind on God at all times. Analysing every situation with God. But in the light of Jesus' parables on perseverance in prayer and the Syrophoenician woman, it could also mean not to stop praying till you hear a clear yes or no - like Jesus did at Gethsemane but the disciples could not.
Sorry for not being clear. I did not mean that we should not say "Your will be done". Jesus taught us in the Lord's Prayer and by example to include "Thy will be done and not mine".
ReplyDeleteMy point was that my prayer cannot just be "Thy will be done" just as prayer cannot be "Feed me" without me making any effort to obtain food. I need to apply the intellectual and other resources God has given me to try and understand what God would like to happen and I need to pray it into existence. That is the what we learn from Ezek 22:30. That is the responsibility that has been delegated to us.
Again sorry for missing the point of Magdalene's argument. Her point was that since God had sent a prophetic word to Hezekiah that he was to die and he needs to set his house in order, it was not correct for him to reject God's will and to ask for an extension of life. During this extension of life Manasseh was born who was stated to be the worst king of Judah ever!!
ReplyDeleteThat is a correct interpretation. However in the case of the Syro-phoenician women, when Jesus says that it is not proper to give that which is for the children to the dogs, she does not accept that and presses her petition.
Further in Hezekiah's case However, the prayer appears to be within the permissive will of God. In the light of James, who says "you ask and receive not because you ask wrongly", since Hezekiah was heard, his asking may not have been totally wrong.
In my life, I have generally taken the stand that once I have given my life into God's hand, nothing happens tome that Jesus does not permit. So when an event in my life occurs I take it as the revealed will of God and then I go ahead and try and visualise what I would like to see happen in that event and pray it in.
If I am transferred, I may pray for the right school for the children - at a realistic level of fees etc. rather than just say thy will be done.
In many things the details are left to us to create and any of several options are acceptable to the overall plan of God, and I am free to ask for any of these multiple options, based on what is important to my personality etc. Here asking for a specific option is perfectly legitimate.